December 01, 2005
Some Quick Thoughts On Joe Thornton To San Jose
*I had been working on a long post on the Bruins over the weekend that I never finished, and at the time, there seemed to be no indication that a trade of this magnitude was in the offing. If you had told me Sergei Samsonov or Patrice Bergeron was getting moved, I'm not sure I would have batted an eyelash.
*When it comes to huge multi-player deals like this one, I generally favor the team acquiring the lone proven star over the team that tries to replace a superstar with a couple of competent, but not overpowering players.
*As you might imagine, PJ was all over this deal. Start at the top and just keep scrolling. Some highlights: Sharks still need veteran wing who can score; Stuart's play at the point on the power play had hurt the team; and the team's spin that it had returned a lineup pretty close to the one that took to the ice in 2003-04 was overblown.
UPDATE: Reader reaction is coming in, and it isn't good. Here's our friend Michael McCann:
I thought you're not supposed to trade a young franchise player unless you get one back in return (or at least one who may become one)? This seems like trading a quarter for a dime, a nickel, and a penny.
Here's Jay Kumar:
I just don't get it. I'm a Leafs fan, so I'm glad to see Boston get rid of Thornton, but I don't understand their reasoning. Sure, they needed to shake things up because they've been horrible, but to trade your best player and captain doesn't make sense. And even worse, they certainly didn't get fair value in return. Stuart's a good, not great, defenseman and Sturm is a decent forward (Primeau's a defensive role player that the B's are already chock full of).
This smacks of salary dump to me, which of course makes me think Jeremy Jacobs told Mike O'Connell to cut bait for the season. Why not trade Thornton to a team with another underachieving star, like Bertuzzi? Bruins fans will not be happy with this one, but Sharks fans should be psyched. This is like a bad fantasy league trade that gets overturned by the commissioner.
I don't think we can discount Jay's speculation about Jeremy Jacobs blowing a gasket. Here's what he said over the weekend about his team's performance so far this season:
"A Bruin stands for something on the ice, it always has," Jacobs told The Boston Globe. "It's the win-loss column that's going to make a difference. We should be leading this division. We're not. That's a terrible letdown."
(snip)
"There doesn't seem to be the intensity or the desire or the hard work it takes to play this game," Jacobs told The Globe. "We think we've got great talent on the ice and I believe we do ... but they sure aren't producing at that level and it's very, very disappointing."
While I'm not sure the Bruins should be leading their division, and the Northeast is probably the most competitive in the league, it was pretty clear the team was underachieving.
I think I might need to send some emergency relief to Ben Wright:
Worst trade ever. If the Thrashers hadn't moved up past the Bruins in my hockey life this year I'd be crushed as a hockey fan. Either O'Connell has to pull another huge, but much better, trade out of his ass, or he needs to be fired. This trade is an admission that everything that he did since the end of the '03-04 season was a colossal screw-up and that he is now starting over. Thanks for nothing Mike. Not only am I pissed as a long-time Bruins fan, but you've royally screwed up my fantasy team which features Joe Thornton and Glen Murray. Who's going to set up Glen now Mike? Huh? Who?
And one more thing... who in the world is supposed to captain this mess of a team now? Hal Gill?
If this is the start of a housecleaning, you have to wonder who might be going next. Taking a look at the rest of the payroll, I'm sure Jacobs would like to unload Alexi Zhamnov, but who would take him? Next up salary-wise is Glen Murray, but it would be hard to suggest that he's not pulling his weight.
More later, as the disbelief continues to come in.
ANOTHER UPDATE: Steve Ovadia has some thoughts:
I think this is an example of new NHL thinking. The Bruins are struggling and the first instinct is to clear cap space, so they can bring in someone who'll turn the team around. You know. The same way compulsive gamblers offset huge losses by betting more.
Hockey Analysis:
The Sharks now have a dominant centerman who can take control of a game and anchor the Sharks offense. Every team needs one of those guys if they want to win. For Boston, well, now they don’t and they will suffer. Yes, Brad Stuart is a solid defenseman, and the Bruins could definitely use one of those, but without Thornton Boston is going to suffer significantly in the offensive zone. Not only do they lose Thornton but Glen Murray isn’t going to be near as useful as a goal scorer without Thornton setting him up and I am not sure Bergeron, Boyes, Zhamnov or any of the other centers that Boston has will be able to fill that role adequitely.
WickedBruinsFan:
To shake up the team you trade a center (Dave Scatchard) fans liked, waive a couple guys fans liked (Shawn McEachern and Colton Orr!)... and now trade The Franchise.
I would consider this team all shook up, just like Elvis.
Heather Creegan needs a hug:
I was planning on taking more pictures of Ottawa tomorrow at the game, because I love the Ottawa, but now I'm wondering if I shouldn't go take some Bruins pictures, because who knows who's next? But... Joe. Not there. Feels wrong.
IS IT BECAUSE I WAS DIGGING ON THE JOE THIS YEAR?!?!? IS THAT IT? IS BOSTON TRYING TO MAKE MY NHL/AHL CONFLICTS EASIER BY RUNNING ME INTO THE OPEN ARMS OF PROVIDENCE?
I'm going to bed. Maybe I'll wake up and find out that I dreamed up today, the worst Wednesday in the history of Wednesdays.
Of course, as bad as things might be in Boston this morning, it's quite the opposite in San Jose, as this analysis from PJ demonstrates.
Here's a question: Ever since we got back from the lockout, I've thought of the Sharks as Patrick Marleau's team. But over the long term, will it stay that way? Can it stay that way?
In any case, it's a nice problem to have.
CANADIAN WEST UPDATE: Colby Cosh and the Battle of Alberta chime in.
BEANTOWN BULLPEN UPDATE: Ex-ESPN and current NESN play-by-play man Jack Edwards lowered the boom on Thornton today:
Was Joe accountable as captain, and did he insist on his teammates’ accountability? What players say in the room will stay in the room for the most part, so as non-players we never will really know – but it sure seemed as if there were a few riders in the early part of this season that never got called out by the captain.
Maybe Thornton didn’t feel comfortable doing that. Okay, again, it doesn’t make him a bad person – but it does make him an ineffective leader. I wish him luck in San Jose, and -- where he will not have to bear the burden of personal leadership – he may have some fantastic years there.
More from the Boston Globe's Jackie MacMullan. I think I need to give the last word to one of my podcasting partners, Joe Tasca:
Reading the Globe this morning gives you an idea how despised Thornton was in the Boston media. Each article has a common these - Thornton wasn't a leader. What the hell does that mean anyway? What, exactly, is a leader? And how would the media know a damn thing about Thornton's leadership qualities (or lack thereof)?
The problem with Thornton is that he didn't say boo to the media. He avoided the shooting gallery after Game 7 against Montreal in 2004, and he's been shunning guys like Dupont this season. It's shameful how they're persecuted him today. I don't think Patrick Roy received this bad a beating in in the French press ten years ago.
These articles all seem to talk about how Thornton never held himself or his teammates accountable. How the hell would they know? The problem is Thornton didn't hold himself accountable to the media. When you're captain, especially in Beantown, that's an obligation.
Indeed it is. I think Boston fans will regret this trade for a very long time.
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Well, if you're going to cut bait, cut bait; a million six saved in salary isn't going to turn Boston around. There have to be other moves coming.
Or maybe someone panicked.
Posted by:
at December 1, 2005 11:14 AM
Check out hockeydirt.com for more reaction from Boston.
This will be kind of weird, because Patrick Marleau is a good guy, but nowhere near as charsimatic as Thornton. And Tasca nailed it when he said the media was not happy with Thornton in Boston.
San Jose was groomed by Owen Nolan to expect the captin to run over people as well as scoring the game winning goal. As much as Thornton shunned the media, Owen Nolan was someone you do not mess with. He did not want to say one word to the media, instead letting his actions on the ice speak for themselves. I can understand that, but it is not the best thing for selling hockey in a non tradional market.
One thing that will be cool for Thornton is the same thing Damphousse experienced after coming over as a Captain from the Canadiens. He could walk down the street and no one knew who he was. The local media, except when it comes to NHL as a sport, is notoriously soft on its start players. I guess Terrell Owens is an exception there too.
If he gets off to a good start on the ice, and presses the flesh for a week or two to make the rounds of all the local media, he will buy 2 years to find himself on the ice.
But the trades are not over. When backup goaltender Vesa Toskala [600,000] comes back from injury and regains his form, Nolan Schaefer [400,000] will probably be sent to Cleveland. Then the Sharks will take a serious look at moving Nabokov [3,300,000], an unrestricted free agent after this year. If they dealt Nabokov for a PP defenseman, had Toskala-Schaefer in net, and Marleau-Thornton on the top line, this could be a playoff team.
Posted by:
at December 1, 2005 03:53 PM
So the Thornton era has ended with only 1 playoff victory in 8 years and that over the Hurricanes. The Bruins have a history of trading their best forward to shake up the team. On Nov. 1975 they sent Esposito to the Rangers for Ratelle and Park shaking the East Coast ice world. Espo was traded for trying to do too much while Joe was sent packing for doing too little-stats aside. Joe is a victim of high expectations over a number of years and just didn't become another Mark Messsier. As a Shark he can blend in with the team relieved of the leadership expectations and enjoy a fine career. The Bruins were sparked for at least 1 night blanking the Senators.
Posted by:
at December 2, 2005 04:01 PM
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